Jeremy Southern: Now is the age of ageism
By Jeremy Southern, former executive creative director and current freelance creative/copywriter
As discriminations go, ageism is relatively young. And by that, I mean it has only recently started to be identified as a ‘thing.’
Other forms of discrimination such as racism, sexism, homophobia, genderism, ableism etc have been in the public eye for some time now and have become embedded in our consciousness as inappropriate and offensive behaviour.
But ageism, well not so much.
Give us a Rubiales kiss, same sex marriage ban or Matilda’s pay disparity and we become keyboard warriors faster than you can say discrimination.
But tell us about someone who can’t get a job because they’re ‘old’ and we just shrug our shoulders and focus on to what we deem to be more poignant issues.
You see, for whatever reason, ageism just doesn’t resonate with us as much as it should.
Maybe it’s because ageing is such a universal malaise.
Like it or not, every single one of us is gonna get old. Doesn’t matter a damn what colour, creed, sexual orientation or gender we are.
And with this being the case, it can be hard to identify a minority with which to empathise. After all, we’ll all be in the same boat eventually.
But that’s not the only roadblock to ageism acceptance. There’s also human nature to consider.
Many of us look at older people and assume, rightly or wrongly, that they’ve had their chance.
They were young once and had great careers, jet-setting lifestyles and munificent salaries.
In other words, they had ample opportunities to set themselves up for later life. Investment properties, side hustles, managed funds etc.
The fact that they didn’t, well, that’s on them.
The final reason is a simple one. None of us likes to be reminded of the fact that we are gonna get old. We would rather sweep it under the carpet and pretend it isn’t going to happen.
And by ignoring age in this way, we also by extension, ignore ageism.
Which brings us to the million-dollar question. How can ageism overcome these issues and become the new darling of the discrimination world?
Well, unfortunately, it’s going to require a change of approach.
Many of us older folk hail from a generation that was taught not to not kick up a fuss.
But it’s clear that quiet stoicism and a stiff upper lip ain’t going to cut it in a world hungry for the next cause célèbre.
Instead, we need to do as other discriminated minorities have done before us and raise awareness of the issue. Publicly and vociferously.
Every time you are discriminated against because of age, hit social media and make sure the world knows.
Name and shame the perpetrators and make them realise it is not o.k to lay you off or reject your application because of your age.
Let Dylan Thomas’s immortal poem “Do not go gentle into that good night’ be your mantra and, from here on in, “rage, rage against the dying of the light.”
To contact Jeremy Southern email him at jeremys2211@gmail.com
117 Comments
Wise words
I heartily agree. But during lean times like they have been for most this year, young and old alike are scrapping for whatever they can get. I’m lucky to have a side hustle lecturing. I’m yet to have one kid express an interest in being a commercials director. I don’t even think they know what that is!
The thing I’ve witnessed, unfortunately, is old people get too ‘expensive’. In 2008 the average CD wage was around $1million, a decent senior creative could command up to $3-400k. Now the average ECD can expect roughly $300k. Some more, some less. Compare that to the average price of a house in 2008 vs 2023 and there’s a reason they call advertising a ‘young person’s game’. It’s done. No point whinging, you might find something you like even more or make a lot more money doing something else.
Could not agree more. I’m a young’un And frankly i think the government needs to provide either mandates or financial incentives for companies to have a % of their workforce over 50. It’s not the most idealistic way of fixing the problem but i do think in a way that older people in this industry are disadvantaged and discriminated against.
If adland can’t demonstrate that it’s a secure and long-term career choice, the next Gen talent pool will keep shrinking, and the industry will only have itself to blame when it all goes t*ts up.
One needn’t look any further than the recent Yes campaign comment section on this very blog to see the rampant ageism. This industry has become a war: Young versus Old. Good on you for standing up and saying something. We wouldn’t accept it if it were discrimination by any other name.
Agreed. Reverse-discrimination is also beginning to be identified and spoken about as a serious problem in the industry.
“In 2008 the average CD wage was around $1million”
Lol what are you smoking
Gave up cigarettes before they hit $20 a packet. Let me remind you, in 2008, the average CD was the equivalent of a CCO now. And I can think of several that were north of $1m at the time.
They didn’t have CCOs in 2008 so I assume the poster is referring to the equivalent, many which made even more. Us boomers really did have it all.
The reason people don’t get all stinky about ageism compared to every other ism isn’t that it’s a universal malaise, it’s that the people getting stinky aren’t old. Old people are getting stinky about young people getting stinky about everything. And about getting old. And it’s a particularly unattractive and ironically self unaware trait of the old.
And yes, I’m old.
I recently started a new job. Before I started I was referred to by someone who knew of me as, ‘that old lady’. I learned of this and it’s stuck with me since. It kinda sucks. Both being old and being in an industry that eats its own regularly.
Recruiters have told me if you’re a straight white male over 40, you’re ‘not in fashion’. A shame it has nothing to do with talent or hard work anymore.
Never leave your career to recruiters!
They will sell whatever is easiest to move.
And if the placement fails, they have another dozen to replace the disappointment.
They love high turnover as there is an endless supply of people who think they are the next big thing.
Recruiters are the pimps who flog ‘one-hit-wonders’ to FOMO ECDs who never question the insanity of ‘never be afraid to fail’.
Imagine spending years of unpaid overtime honing a career, becoming a world-class creative, learning how to handhold all the shit clients while winning awards on the good ones, how to foster creativity across departments, train and develop careers and bring in tonnes of new business only to be told, presumably the day after you turn 40, that you’re too old, the wrong race, wrong gender and thanks, but we’ll take it from here. Nobody asked to be the race, gender or time they were born, and sadly there is a huge discrepancy in the industry right now that nobody is game enough to talk about. Myself included.
Confuse the age issue with the diversity issue.
These two are not directly linked like some of these comments are suggesting.
Maybe, just maybe the reason why people think people are old is because they have outdated points of view.
Thanks for your piece, Jeremy.
As someone with a few grey hairs, I jumped across the fence a little while back into corporate land because I could see so many of my contemporaries being shoved out of the way only to be replaced by newer models. I’ve been client side, as a creative, for four years now. In that time, I’ve felt valued because my colleagues understand that the decades’ worth of experience I bring to the table means something. They are not perturbed by my silvery hair or the wrinkles around my eyes. They couldn’t care less.
They do care, however, that I have a bank of hard-won knowledge they can rely on to help solve problems. In the same way that I value my GP’s experience (she’s 65), dentist’s track record (in his 60s, as well), my financial adviser (late 50s), and car mechanic (who’s been at it from the time car’s didn’t have microchips in them), to just name a few.
Ageism sucks. It’s offensive and corrosive. It’s debilitating.
If there’s any consolation, it’s that what goes around, comes around. I wish you all the best, Jeremy. You’re a great writer and an asset to anyone who values experience.
Here comes the ‘all old people are racist sexist and bigoted’ argument. Apply this kind of defence to someone saying this kind of catchall about an ethnicity or sexuality and imagine the fury.
A career is not over at 40 if you are good at what at what you do, share your knowledge and experience, are kind and treat everyone the same from top management to the youngest junior.
Yes this industry does eat its own and throws people under the bus, usually for the wrong reasons, it’s a tough industry, always has been.
Too much emphasis is put on revenue rather than the creativity, probably why the small shops are doing so well and why some big agencies have serious problems.
We do or once did what we do because we love it and not for the pay packet and if you are there for the pay packet you shouldn’t be there as your motivation is wrong. I am not saying you should not be compensated for your value and worth, it just should not be your motivation, as after all, aren’t you doing what you are doing because you love the creative challenge?
As someone who always loved what they have always done verging on nearly 70 I recently decided myself that it was time to walk away from this industry.
Not because of ageism and not because those that I worked with were way younger than my children, rather that a large part of this industry is broken, there is little fun anymore and also guess it’s time for me to grow up.
It isn’t over at 40, but here, you start being treated differently as soon as the grey hair shows up. In England and America, totally different. I 100% agree the industry is broken and to your point about not doing it for the pay packet – you’re right. It’s just people aren’t hiring for brilliance anymore, they’re hiring to fill a quota. That’s the real shame, even if you stick ‘old people’ on that quota.
First they came for the men. Then they came for the whites. They’re currently coming for the straights. And next, they come for the boomers.
59% of the Australian advertising industry is female. Not sure on the ethnicity data but catch cry of fourth wave feminists on LinkedIn the last few years that advertising is a “male dominated industry” is fundamentally untrue.
I agree ageism sucks and is a huge problem in our industry. But can I make a suggestion if you’re north of 40? Make sure that the way you present yourself and your work feels current. I see so many older creatives with websites that look like they’re from 1997. Anyone can make a basic Squarespace site and present their work in a more modern way. Include lots of different media, not just TV ads. Write about the creative strategy. Lean into your experience and tell your story. You can see lots of good examples of online portfolios from younger people in our industry, who probably feel they have a lot more to prove and so put in the effort. But as creatives, of any age, we all have to prove ourselves, constantly – and how you present yourself and your work is just one more thing that you have to keep working on.
At the heart of the matter, it comes down to bias on a sweeping surface level. People who are hiring don’t look past that, and it’s the wrong way to look at things.
It’s no wonder that some of the experienced people have, and will continue to, say goodbye to the industry bias and start their own thing due to not being the ‘up and coming’. Or quit the main agency system and do something else.
Due to this narrow-minded thinking, the bigger creative agencies are missing out, and these people who have a wealth of knowledge are more efficient, better at real client relationships, better at knowing how their client’s business works, and crushing it with fewer resources around them.
Look around. There are so many great new and progressive creative companies over the past 5 or so years that have been started by people over 40 and 50. And it will continue as the bias continues.
Look both locally and globally, and you’ll find the best in the industry are still older. Seriously, compare them to the ‘young rock stars’ who have popped up in leadership roles everywhere over the past couple of years.
Of course, there are older skills who have lost the drive and failed to keep up. But it’s not the rule.
People in hiring positions need to open their eyes a bit more.
Old is a state of mind, not an age. You can be 15 and have old ideas. If your ideas are old, then you are old and the industry isn’t having it.
I’ve actually heard from multiple recruiters over the last two years that agencies “just aren’t hiring straight white guys” at the moment.
There’s a word for that.
@Pendulum – yep. But, here’s the thing. We all kinda knew our number would be up at some point, especially if we got into this in the 90s or the 00s. We saw people (including the much more talented women working with us back then) retiring to become property developers, artists, antique car restorers, all kinds of things. So… well… maybe it’s time to start a beer company. It’s not the recruiters fault. It’s the sycophantic nature of agencies trying to please everyone and not pleasing a damn dime in the process.
Just wait until they find out the “gender pay gap” is a result of a deliberate overgeneralisations and obfuscation of data!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/karlynborysenko/2020/03/31/great-news-ladies-the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-myth/
There are a lot of activists in this industry and they’re doing a lot of damage. No wonder people are leaving.
Agree with everything you say. What staggers me is the amount of time older people have given to the industry along their journey before they are booted out. Free mentoring and training, free advice and time to industry bodies, free ideas to clients and the industry, free hours to charities, and the list goes on. People in other industries would shake their heads at all the free hours people in this industry give away when the payback is being pushed out once they’ve hit a certain age. And how much is done by the industry that gets all the free input from experienced people?
The industry also has ingrained in us that anyone past 40 is lucky to be kept around, and if you’re past 50 you should have started an agency (Ha! While working 60-70 hour weeks) not had kids or invested more wisely. Add to that, most people hitting 40 now were on pretty average salaries compared to the ones before them with significantly higher cost of rent / housing. How can the industry attract talent when we rob the majority of people of 15-25 years of employment? Despite my wife and I having generational backgrounds in advertising, our kids will be going into construction or accounting. Yes a few make it big, but it’s at the expense of many.
We were wrong! Turns out older people can be as personally aggrieved and sooky as Gen Z! Love that for you guys!
This constructive advice is spot on.
Rather than write about this issue, put that energy into up-skilling and diversifying what you bring to the table.
‘Recruiters have told me if you’re a straight white male over 40, you’re ‘not in fashion’. A shame it has nothing to do with talent or hard work anymore.’
Imagine what it’s like being a WOMAN over 40.
You’re in luck. Seriously. And if you’re not, take a look at your book.
To the person who keeps bringing up the % of women in our industry on this (and other) threads. Yes, there may be more women overall. But they are a minority in leadership and in many creative departments. And that is a real problem for many reasons, not least that women make up 50% of the population and nearly 90% of all purchasing decisions.
Not to mention the countless late nights and weekends. Imagine putting a dollar figure on that over the span of 20 years.
Imagine a dollar figure marked up to the head hours an agency charges for that unpaid overtime. Anyone remotely senior doing an average of 10 extra hours per week is gifting the agency at least $115k per year (42 weeks). Over 20 years that’s $2.3m. Yes ‘I don’t understand how ad agencies work’ *cough* and ‘we take the hit when there’s client revisions’ but… someone’s making the money.
Can I get the stats on that please? At least half the creative directors I know are female. Heck just have a look at almost any of the press releases on Campaign Brief. (Not the commenter above by the way).
Did it ever occur to you a large portion of women T “creative director” age would rather start a family than be stuck doing late nights in the office? Y’know, of their own volition? Just because there’s a discrepancy doesn’t mean there’s discrimination.
Might want to educate yourself.
The the writer, mate ageism isn’t just here to stay, it’s only just getting started. Look at the emerging talent – it’s insanely good, fresh and beautifully uncertain. And not only is it good mate, this talent is dictating where this game is headed. They are the new pioneers, rewriting the concept of brand and culture and everything in between. If you really think about, some older folks (a) are not at the edge of new tech, and (b) by the time they are, it’s not ‘the edge of tech anymore. And (c) You happy to stay back and start again at 11pm thrice weekly? A massive reason why advertising is awesome, is because it’s a rolling wheel of change and unattainability. It’s good because of ageism – and eventually, running behind the truck holding out one’s arms yelling “pick me”, well, it just gets a little exhausting. I heard Sydney needs bus drivers badly. I’m thinking about it.
Good argument and lots of truth there. Here’s a counter to that thinking. Does that then suggest it’s every person for themselves? The young can use their so-called dynamic new thinking and the older and more experienced will use theirs. No sharing. No training. No mentoring. No passing on of the fundamental crafts and human insights and ways to work with clients. A kind of, everyone can just work it out themselves kind of deal. Focus on what they are tasked to do. I know of many legendary status leaders who have almost never trained or passed on the knowledge. Rarely written an industry article. Never ran training sessions. Never given presentations to teach people inside and outside of the agency day to day. They just focused on their work. Maybe that’s the way to go. Level the playing field, eh.
Young person here – I cringed reading that manifesto written on our behalf.
Seriously, make your money, have your fun, but get out before you turn 31.
Another not-so-young ECD here and I agree with this. A lot of portfolios I see from people my age and above are filled with ads from the glory days. No social. No tech-based ideas. No modern thinking. I was told when I was young to constantly throw out your old ideas and replace them new ones. I still do it these days, even replacing D&AD pencils from 15 years ago. And I don’t judge creatives on their age but whether I’m confident they can answer a range of modern briefs.
Let’s be brutally honest-ageism is never a problem until one reaches a certain age.
Like music and movies, our industry is institutionally drawn to the young, the fresh, the new.
You can moan, groan and complain but things will never change.
@grey matters, had the right notion.
I dumped my awards, packed my experience and knowledge and pivoted out of the agency into the client’s side at 47.
Reinvention is scary. But so very liberating.
My company doesn’t know a Cannes from a can and the only pencils they have are for writing.
Then again, clients don’t passively support toxic work places, actually respect work-life balance and pay so much better.
I have no regrets starting in advertising. It’s the best earn-as-learn post graduate education. Fun too.Bags of it.
But get out before you get broken or bitter. Do it before you become the grumpy guy or girl every ones pitys and avoids.
If you truly believe you have much more to offer, make sure you get paid and appreciated for your experience.
And if the agency doesn’t, it’s their loss.
The grass is indeed greener on the other side.
And the gate is open.
the only thing closed is one’s mind.
The ‘young’ are cheap. They don’t all have mortgages or families to pay for and rush home to. They are disposable and can be worked harder for longer. Shrinking budgets and fewer retainers mean agencies are ok with mediocrity over experience so long as it’s delivered at the speed of light to keep their clients happy. Short term. We kind of shot ourselves in the foot by not charging clients correctly for creativity and IP. We are at the mercy of head hours and timesheets. And recruitment budgets.
How I interesting is this conversation. Well thought out and well written, considered opinions, respect for divergent points of view, and nuanced debate. You’d hardly believe it’s the CB blog. Could it have something to do with the age, experience and quality of the contributors.
It’s definitely a problem in this industry. Unlike many others, where there’s a bottleneck at the top where older folks want to stay active and don’t want to retire.
And that’s one of the issues here; older creatives don’t want to stop doing what they love. There just needs to be a better way at fitting them into the agency system.
The client side folks have already experienced how it can be done.
The answer is London. Lots of older creatives are appreciated there, and there’s no rush to be ‘CD-level’ – you can just be a very talented Senior Creative, great at what you do and paid exceptionally well.
Creatives who’ve gone client side, what roles did you go into? Can you jump from creative to marketer, or is it more a case of seeking in-house creative role?
@Client-side curious
The opportunities are pretty varied on the client’s side.
From the obvious in-house creative department to the C-suite, there’s no one-size-fits-all solution.
The secret sauce is to knowing how to engage the employer beyond the usual blah blah of awards and jargon we use to disguise our lack of depth.
Trash all the one-off ads which won awards no one client cares or has heard of.
Make sure that you have work that the client has seen and admires.
Show big campaigns based on bold ideas that have improved your client’s business or transformed the market.
Talk like a serious client. Show you understand how the business works and have commercially viable points-of-view on topics they think about.
I won’t kid you that it’s easy to make the pivot.
But let me share with you what waits for those who do make the leap and nail the landing.
A longer and more sustainable career that can pay more than most ECDs, even if the title isn’t brag- worthy.
Working for right company comes with benefits and employee protection that puts most agencies to shame.
Most companies have flat structures with transparent KPIs, so there are no overheads for mono-function planners who pass off talking as doing actual work.
And when these companies do give back to society, it isn’t in the form of a pro-bono ad designed to attract self adulation and personal glory.
Their staff actually put in the hours to build and repair shelters for the homeless.
Their staff volunteer to cheer up kids with cancer.
They work with NGOs to improve the lives of migrants.
And that’s when you appreciate why there’s more to life than just yourself.
I have always believed that ‘creative’ isn’t a title but a way of life.
If you truly believe that you are creative, you will figure out how to reinvent yourself into what the clients need and pay handsomely for.
But you can’t sail to new lands if you still have one foot on the dock.
Leaving means leaving behind the awards that made you feel relevant and titles that made you feel secure.
I wish those considering to take the leap the very best of luck.
Good on you Jeremy for shining a light on what is being ignored. Feels like you’ve been pushing against this one on your own for a fair while and it’s high-time it was elevated and discussed on the many, many industry panels made up of those who like to talk about everything, bar this. I’m a very experienced creative who loves this industry, yet I’m afraid to openly celebrate my birthday agency people for fear of being ostracised for my age. How bad is an industry when it strikes fear into someone for hiding their age so as not to be cast aside. Awful, but true. Wishing you all the best Jeremy.
Now that white men are finally going, it’s time to start pushing some of the white women out as well. So sick of seeing diversity panels and think pieces centered around this privileged group that somehow gets an inclusivity pass. Make way for some REAL diversity.
This
Now I get why senior people die their hair, whiten their teeth and get Botox, just to try and not look older.
Agree if you replace white, privately educated men with their white, privately educated younger sisters you won’t have any real diversity. Years ago I worked at an agency whose policy was about diversity of thinking and backgrounds, not skin-colour or sex. We had people from all countries and all walks of life. We had a couple of ‘white private school’ teams. The rest of us were just misfits: a punk who spent his holidays playing sold-out shows in East Berlin, a hippy-chick who grew up in a commune without a TV but was somehow brilliant at advertising, a fantastic Brazilian bloke who I later learned grew up in a favela with nothing, a born-again mormon… It was fun. There was no way in hell I would have met these people if it wasn’t for advertising. We won buckets of awards. And guess what? Most of us weren’t white. But that’s not why we were hired.
This all started with terrible planning. They’ve been telling clients concocted stats like ‘80% of people want to see themselves in an ad, otherwise they can’t relate to it’ — which is completely false. Plot twist, clients start saying ‘Well shouldn’t the people writing these ads also be the same demographic as our audience?’ Now the agency should say ‘It’s entirely laughable to think that one’s background, age, sexual preference or hairstyle makes someone a better writer than another. In fact there are many examples of teetotallers writing fantastic beer ads or men writing amazing tampon ads and never in one case has it come down to their gender, age or background’… but guess what? They don’t. Rarely are agencies asked to write ads for ‘older audiences’ and even if they are, the product still needs to feel ‘cool and young’ because nobody likes to think they’re old. And here we are.
Even better the all-white feminist panels are always fighting for some cause that has been debunked countless times. It’s all for the insufferable self-serving #girlboss LinkedIn brag.
“Now that white men are finally going”.
Have you also noticed this coincided with the massive quality drop in advertising the last 5-10 years? Funny that. It’s almost like mandatory HR quotas are a bad idea.
Could not agree more. Hire the best people for the job and your creative department is going to diverse anyway. Having spent the last 15 years working across Australia, the US and on an expat team in Southeast Asia this is how it’s always been up until recently.
It’s such a shame to see the gradual homogenisation of creative departments. Makes me pine for the days when a very talented art director showed up in a dress calling himself Natasha. Nobody gave a shit. Then when he decided to be a man again, nobody gave a shit. But we all gave a shit about what a great person and how incredibly talented he was. And that’s all that mattered. Good people making great work.
The age cycle was always thus. When I entered the industry in the late 70s I pondered of the over-40’s “What are these old farts doing here?” I remember Jeremy when he was a young, aggressive upstart. Now he’s complaining of ageism. How the worm turns. I retired from the industry at age 53 after feeling pushed out time & time again. Twitter and social media were emerging and it was all foreign to me. I’m from the era when all you had to think of was TV, print and radio. I was in the business when it was fun. Particularly the 80s & 90s. I’m glad I’m no longer involved, but as you can see, I’m still interested in what’s going on in the industry, from my frequent forays on Campaign Brief. Though I’m here mostly for the Obituaries.
AI will take all our creative jobs eventually regardless of what age you are
It’s happening already ffs
If you guys had bothered to think about diversity in your heyday (including age diversity) and did something positive and tangible with the power you once yielded, you could have made the industry a better place for everyone – including your future, older self. Most people who make it to the top of this bog swap just ravaged and pillaged and left a messy toxic culture us younger people are trying to clean up.
For all the bitter bitching here about female ‘activists’ pushing for better (can only imagine you’re referring to Aunties, Mavens, MIA, Shequal, FCK The Cupcakes etc) – they are all working, unpaid, to make our industry better for everyone. I dare say, more women like these who can bear to stick it out and make it to the top might actually be brave enough to do something to change a model that is long broken and grinding everyone, including the older workforce, to a pulp.
Excuse me. Us ‘guys’ fought for and fostered an industry far more diverse than it is now, including age. Our positive and tangible difference was to tirelessly mentor people from any walk of life who showed any spark of – not talent, but enthusiasm – for free through the AWARD School system. Yes, teaching for 12 weeks, but mentoring day in, day out afterwards. Many of us creatives have mentored very talented women, non-binary or men (who cares!?) from all walks of life for free, as a lifetime commitment to keeping a diverse talent pool in advertising. Nobody is calling anybody out for being an activist, but denying talent over sex, race, creed or age is inherently wrong, and of detriment to all of us. We’re on your side. Talent has always been what should win, not vaginas, penises, grey or supple hair.
Age is part of the diversity equation
If your agency is not age-diverse it’s not diverse
Simple as that
I’ve worked with some younger creatives who were very politically correct, and rightly so. But would be calling people boomers and talk of anyone older in the most dismissive way. Much like I used to hear people talking the same way of people of different race, genders and sexual orientation years ago. When you read the comments on the Yes campaign a few weeks ago, you can see it in black and white. Hopefully these same people will see that they’re words have an effect. But I agree with the comments on portfolios. If you are getting overlooked for jobs it may be that there are better people lining up for the same gig, and your work doesn’t make the cut anymore.
Nailed it
It’s not a question of ‘diversity.’
It’s a matter of merit and ability, isn’t it?
This gender war sh*t is just so toxic man.
Men and women need each other, we’re yin and yang and the yin and yang is being torn apart by miserable people. Miserable people who want to make you miserable as well.
So then let’s just agree that the main issue is diversity. Not all these sub issues lol
Oh dear, the indoctrination is strong with this one.
“For all the bitter bitching here about female ‘activists’ pushing for better (can only imagine you’re referring to Aunties, Mavens, MIA, Shequal, FCK The Cupcakes etc) – they are all working, unpaid, to make our industry better for everyone.”
Ahh yes, pushing discriminatory (and fundamentally incorrect) fourth-wave feminist ideology and getting together with HR managers who have been exposed as putting hiring freezes on “straight white men” is really making the industry better for everyone. Bravo. Thank you for your sacrifice.
You might want to consider:
1. The gender pay gap has been debunked so many times, it’s almost laughable to see anyone still taking it seriously: https://realstats.app/gender-pay-gap
2. Overall there are more women in the Australian advertising industry than men, despite the constant claims on Linkedin to the contrary. (Read: fighting the “patriarchy”.
3. The common argument that we need X amount of female creative directors or female CCO’s fails to take into account the large majority of women would prefer to start a family when they get to the ages required for these roles. OF THEIR OWN CHOOSING. i.e. There is no discrimination. Even taking this into account the ratio of male-to-female creative directors is not wildly disproportionate at all.
4. There is a male mental health crisis going on and it is getting absolute zero attention. The lack of help is actually quite disturbing.
Anyway, have fun at the next Aunties, Mavens, MIA, Shequal, FCK The Cupcakes etc meeting.
Very ugly comment masquerading as enlightened.
It’s now your turn to suffer…
Here are some stats:
In 2015 it was reported that 15% of Aussie CDs were female
In 2021 that 14% of CDs worldwide were female
– Grow and Deng (2015). Tokens in a man’s world: Women in creative advertising departments.
– Thompson-Whiteside, Turnbull and Howe-Walsh (2021). Advertising: should creative women be expected to ‘fake it?
It’s not a gender war
Nor is it a simple case of merit and ability
All the research into diversity shows men have benefited from inbuilt structures and biases that work against women
Whether we like hearing it or not, we need to accept that our work lives have been easier, regardless of ability
It’s not toxic to think like that
Social attitudes have changed. Women used to be confined to a handful of vocations – teaching, nursing etc. That’s now changed, which is a good thing. And over time, as more women enter the world of work, those that are sufficiently talented and motivated, will fill more senior positions. It’s happening and it’s inevitable.
Meanwhile, older people seem to remain excluded and isolated. Isn’t that the point of this piece?
Thanks for the stats from EIGHT years ago. Jump on Campaign Brief’s search function and take a look at the ratio of female-to-male creative hires, it’s absolutely off the charts.
Just look at photos like these from the recent AWARD school graduations and tell me there’s gender bias in advertising…
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=676802821133261&set=pb.100064106460394.-2207520000&type=3
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=676802151133328&set=pb.100064106460394.-2207520000&type=3
What really turns my stomach though is the exposing of advertising HR departments putting a hiring freeze on straight white guys. That is discrimination in it’s purest form. I cannot wait for the lawsuits to start rolling in now it’s starting to be spoken about more publicly.
The feminists of the Australian advertising industry don’t want equality, they want power.
The universal truth is that we all grow older and with that comes change.
After being told I would never get another agency job after the age of 40 by a ‘well respected senior recruiter’ from Sydney, I somehow managed to work in agency land until I turned 60.
There are so many forms of discrimination and age discrimination is the only one to which we might all fall victim at some time.
No form of discrimination is better or worse than another.
None should exist, but sadly they do.
“All the research into diversity shows men have benefited from inbuilt structures and biases that work against women”
What research? What on earth are you talking about? Whenever feminists try to argue their case when there’s pushback to their agenda-pushing they always allude to some concrete evidence they can never seem to muster. Care to share?
Here’s a bit of reading for you. Were you aware men and women naturally choose different jobs based on their biology and of their own free will? Jobs that have different level of remuneration as that pay is tied to the ultimate outcome the job provided. As someone stated above, discrepancy doesn’t equal discrimination. It’s exhausting having to explain these very simple concepts to the misguided feminist activists over and over again.
https://bigthink.com/the-present/gender-equality-paradox/#:~:text=A%20longstanding%20body%20of%20research,prefer%20jobs%20dealing%20with%20people.
Don’t confuse a lack of talent with your advanced age. This industry famously doesnt suffer dead weight.
If you were any good, you’d be in management. Like everyone else your age.
I guess now you’re too expensive to be average.
Bullshit. “Sydney is the most ageist market in the world” – a very well-known creative recruiter. If you’d spent any time in a creative department in London, New York, Amsterdam or even Auckland you’d see seniors aren’t just ‘on the tools’, they’re well respected by management and peers alike.
So many words in this comments section that amount to little more than old, white people crying.
This is possibly the most articulate, well-written, well-thought out discussion on Campaign Brief in years. Probably because the participants are older and more experienced.
This. no truer words have been spoken.
The funniest thing about this thread is how much people are fetishising advertising.
Hot tip: no one outside of this blog, your LinkedIn echo chamber of the wankfest that is Cannes gives a shit about advertising or the fact that you work in advertising.
And to those who make advertising their entire personality good lord I feel sorry for you. Get a hobby.
-Multi award winning advertising creative
Correct.
We shouldn’t discriminate against age, but in a historically white male dominated industry, people like Jonathan who have been given the opportunity to secure their living are now crying out because diversity is eating into their paycheck. Sorry mates, you’re gonna have to share the meat.
There’s ageism, and then there’s advertising’s horrible horrible decades long inequality struggle.
‘When it’s no longer fun, get out.’ Been a while, hasn’t it?
The picture of Dorian Gray hangs in our reception, forced to stare at the dust gathering on the arcade machine. You shan’t see trousers here. Jeans, black crewnecks, loud dresses, grandma glasses. Uggboots with corduroy overalls on bring your own dog day. Snapbacks cover the sin of premature baldness as L’Eau de Overspray enters the IRL group chat. ‘Let’s make it a TwitTok!’ shouts she/her, her pronoun now guaranteed on the credits. Best use of an existing meme at the Iraqi Shark Awards, she/her muses. A he/him gives someone 15 minutes back in their day before waving to a screen. He/him now has 15 minutes to contemplate why his panic attacks are getting worse. ‘Pub lunch @TheRagingCock?’ asks Microsoft Teams. A $45 fish and chips and $13 schooner of regular VB seems tempting, it’s Friday after all. But it’s 3 weeks til payday and there’s an all-staffer at two. Banh Mi and Kombucha it is, with a side of housing-affordability and some whitesplaining on The Voice. It’s quiet most days in the office thinks he/him. Very quiet. Until a single, grey hair sprouts…
Your celebrations might be short lived.
Perhaps right now there are certain HR trends that are in your favour. However, when identity politics is embedded into hiring policies, it’s only a matter of time before the goal posts change and you too will be on the outer. Another identity group will come along and displace you as being the latest oppressed group that needs positive discrimination.
People should be judged on their merits as individuals – not as members of a group.
Moreover, what can you really conclude about a person based on their skin colour? Who knows what challenges they have had to overcome to get to where they are? Who knows if they came from a broken home, a violent home, have a learning disability, couldn’t afford to go to uni, have a child with profound autism?
Maybe they suffer from social anxiety? Maybe they were bullied at school? Maybe their partner is battling a degenerative illness? Maybe they have to support a parent or a sibling? Maybe they had a partner that died in a car crash or by suicide. Life is hard. It’s hard for everyone. Skin colour is but one potential dimension.
Indeed, I see “people of colour” that drop their kids off at the private school around the corner from my house. They drive expensive SUVs, have high-paying jobs and/or family money. Good for them. But hiring their kid in an advertising agency doesn’t do much for ‘diversity’ even though it appears to do a whole lot.
All I know is that ressentiment is not the way forward.
I can almost pinpoint the moment it stopped being fun. 2017 I reckon.
Someone give this person a Miles Franklin Award.
Bahahaha
As an advertising person who has been both young and old.
In my experience what’s most important is how good you are rather than
how old you are.
“People should be judged on their merits as individuals – not as members of a group. Moreover, what can you really conclude about a person based on their skin colour? Who knows what challenges they have had to overcome to get to where they are?”
VERY well said. I can’t believe in 2023 we’re even having to have this conversation. Thank you.
‘BOOMER!’ shouts it/they/I. He/him ducks for cover, fearing his mother may be at reception with he/his lunch money. It’s happened twice since he/him decided to move back home. He/him had tossed between hosting Tinder dates or saving several thousand dollars tossing at home for months. It was an arduous process, but eventually he/his mother’s home-cooked frozen dinners and magic underwear won out. As he/him slowly raises his head above the acoustically-treated parapet to glance at reception, he breathes for the first time in minutes. Nobody is there. Thank god/the gods/the flying spaghetti monster. Another pronoun appears before he/him, looking aghast. ‘BOOMER!’ the pronoun cries. He/his palms start sweating profusely. He/his throat dries like the Murray Darling basin when The Nationals are in power. He/him runs to the bathroom to unleash the undigested chunks of banh mi he had been hate-chewing just minutes earlier. As he/him washes away the remnants of chicken liver pate in the sink, he realises cilantro tastes a lot like coriander. He/him adjusts his/himself and looks in the mirror. His jaw drops with a tragic realisation…
lol. i’m 40 and I earn about $500k a year in an agency. I mean i’m not stupid. I know that’s not forever. Work hard quickly, quit while youre ahead.
Good for you mate.
Happy you are killing it and making a killing.
But read the room.
Not the time and place to brag about youth and pay.
It’s amazing that the old white guys who were happy as pigs in muck to turn a blind eye to the issues that everyone else faced in this industry are now crying the loudest at the first hint of any prejudice that is aimed in there direction. Turn about is fair play and all that gents.
Perhaps if some of those once highly-remunerated creatives hadn’t hit the booze and coke so hard back in the day, when they were elevated to rock-star status and perceived as untouchable, they might not being feeling or looking so old now….
There are plenty of people out there 50+ just getting on with it, and rocking it. 50 is actually adulthood take 2 now.
Equal opportunity mate.
One could argue that you are born into ‘merit’, and ‘talent’, see: nepo babies. This is the core of the diversity problem.
Think about who created the merit system and who it serves. Then look at majority. Your eyes are now open.
Maybe she’s born with it. Maybe no yes it’s nepotism.
MAKE SURE YOU’RE OUT OF ADVERTISING BY 50.
Well said.
Obviously, we are talking about a different dimension of evil, but your base logic is reminiscent of people like Pol Pot: you had your chance to create a perfect society – you failed and now you deserve to be punished.
Behind your self-righteous moralising is nothing more than an ugly vindictive tribalism that takes pleasure in inflicting pain on others. Why? Because in your mind people ‘like them’ inflicted pain on people ‘like you’.
It wasn’t them specifically. You probably weren’t really a direct victim. But people like them hurt people like you. So, let’s get them.
Clearly, the future is in good hands!
Everyone has a Sell By date.
If you can’t find it, you’re blind.
If you won’t see it, you’re in denial.
I trust academic research over anecdotes or CB search function. Below is some more of that. If you do take time to read, you’ll see the structural problems and biases they discuss still exist.
– Crewe and Wang (2018). Gender inequalities in the city of London advertising industry
– Eikhof (2017). Analysing decisions on diversity and opportunity in the cultural and creative industries
– Stephens, Rivera and Townsend (2020). What Works to Reduce Bias? A Multilevel Approach
– Banaji and Greenwald (2016). Blindspot: Hidden biases of good people
– Rivera (2012). Hiring as cultural matching: The case of elite professional service firms
– Mallia (2009). Rare birds: Why so few women become ad agency creative directors
PS. You may also recall a recent experiment by 2 young creatives. Demonstrates gender bias is still very real
https://www.thedrum.com/news/2021/04/13/meet-the-young-creatives-who-went-undercover-prove-ad-industry-s-gender-agenda
So what? People like hanging out with people like them. Suddenly, that’s the basis of all evil!
If you run into a glass ceiling, start your own agency. Hire people you like working with.
Go out and start winning business and talent and show up the dinosaurs.
This all reminds me of going up to the teacher and dobbing on people who were mean to you in the playground.
Life can be cruel. Not everyone will like you. Some people will be mean to you.
Develop some resilience and move on. Solve your own problems without seeking to tear down what already exists.
Build your own alternatives!
Leave it to a butthurt old white dude to compare the first challenges he has ever faced in his life over who he is with literal genocide.
Watch birdman and move on right?
Discrimination? I like hiring who I want to – not who I’m told to.
So you’re saying you’re ok with discrimination
The way to deal with it is: suck it up and move on
okayyyyyyyyy
What a brainless comment. I am a white female. I didn’t get anywhere via ‘privilege’, just bloody hard work. But, I understand the world is so triggering now, perhaps go get a doctors certificate and take a week off for your mental health.
Has anyone here been trained on how to hire for diversity?
By that I mean fairly and professionally. Not “oh shit we need to hire more women”
I know I haven’t
From what I’ve been told from a handful of recruiters and friends inside agencies it’s pretty much just “No straight white guys”.
Lol $500k per year. As agency owner or ECD? You should be on a lot more but paid less with share options and other remuneration. Especially for that 80 hours a week.
oof…
that’s blatant discrimination.. I’ve seen similar
the intention is good but it’s not the right way to go about it
tbh I don’t think many in our industry know how to do this properly
Ageism is the only ‘ism we will all face, no matter your gender, color, politics, pronouns or surfing stance. If you don’t have a solid escape plan, start now. Our wages are going down relatively the last few decades and the costs of houses and living is going up. AI will further smash us. Good luck.