Jamie Watson – A response to anonymous commenters: You’re killing our industry
By Jamie Watson, strategist, M&C Saatchi
And my favourite: “You’re all hacks and I hope you, and your new character die horrible deaths“.
These are just some of the anonymous comments (and casual death threats) I’ve read in the last week on industry publication websites on new pieces of work and opinion pieces.
Reading these comments left me feeling saddened for our future.
Saddened because this isn’t kids trolling each other on social media, it’s adult professionals trolling each other. Adults hiding behind keyboards, too scared to put their names to their comments incase their employer or potential employers see it.
Yes, you “Copy+Paste”, “Cringey”, “+1 on social copywriter” and “Happy Friday”.
You won’t like everyone’s ad, you might think it’s a rip off or lazy, you might not agree with someone’s opinion in a thought piece, or even think it was worth writing. That’s not the point.
But the lack of respect and decency saddens me. We all know how hard this industry can be. We’ve all produced work that isn’t going on our reels. We’ve all dealt with client demands, agency demands, research results etc etc. It’s not easy.
I’m saddened because whatever your opinion on the result, people believed in the work. They put their heart and soul into it, worked late, missed putting the kids to bed or simply kept themselves up all night worrying.
This isn’t a plea to silence disagreers or to celebrate mediocrity. Indeed, at Cannes David Droga declared “we spend as much time justifying average as we do creating amazing”.
This is not a defence of any particular piece of work, any article or any one person, it’s a defence of our industry.
Call me naive, pathetic, a hippie, whatever you want (just head to the comment section, you know where it is), but things need to change.
Just this week Hollywood star Emma Stone warned youngsters saying “I think young people have fallen into cynicism, and making fun of things, and pointing out the flaws in everything.” Stone cited Conan O’Brien’s Tonight Show farewell speech; “Please do not be cynical, I hate cynicism, for the record it’s my least favourite quality, it doesn’t lead anywhere. No one in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get”.
Whether these anonymous commenters are ignorant youth or jaded oldtimers is irrelevant, this industry needs all of us, together.
Our industry is increasingly under threat as smart, talented people are attracted elsewhere. These publications give outsiders a glimpse into our world; what we create and who we are. Advertising has always struggled with it’s reputation, is this really the image we want to portray? Where anonymous cynicism, anger and out and out bullying is thriving? Where, in response, people just shrug with acceptance and say ‘that’s just what this industry is like’.
John Bartle called cynicism the enemy of creativity. And fellow BBH legend Jim Carroll said “We have a saying here that ‘positive people have bigger, better ideas’. I believe it’s true.” Ideas are fragile and they need the brave to create and nurture them.
So let’s drop the cynicism. Let’s acknowledge our reality. Let’s get out of the comment section. Let’s be positive. Let’s build bigger, better ideas. And give them a chance.
And if you’re really so brilliant at advertising, maybe spend the time and effort it took you to anonymously abuse fellow professionals, into making work that your clients are paying you to create.
Yours,
Jamie Watson, NRMA strategist and colleague of Jonno (yes, with 2 ‘n’s).
68 Comments
Couldn’t agree more.
Completely agree.
Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with the general tone of your post, someone (for example) pointing out a spot is a complete and utter rip off of another isn’t being cynical, they’re being factual. And I’d argue, more factual than the agency who decided to PR it.
As you’ve pointed out, we’ve all been there, shit brief, shit client, shit budget, no idea, whatever – but then we should also consider not PRing it.
People complain about risk adverse clients in this country but when there are so many negative, anonymous dickheads, bashing every piece of work that goes out, it’s not surprising it’s hard to get creative work out the door.
Very well said, mate.
This article desperately needed to be written and you nailed it.
If you’re highly intelligent you can’t help but be cynical. Cynicism creates insight. Insight creates brilliant, breakthrough advertising. It also creates the ability to see through and critique average work masquerading as brilliant work. It helps if you’re articulate enough to explain why you think the work is so-so, rather than just hurl insults.
Any questions?
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you for voicing what everyone else (who’s not bitter, twisted and jaded) is thinking mate.
A good point well made. It’s a sick culture when all we can do is try and tear each other down, and do it anonymously. If people have a genuine opinion, then fair enough, but put your own name on it.
Jamie,
It’s true I don’t want future employers to know who I am. But, I anonymously praise as much as I criticise. Are we supposed to applaud everything that comes out? Well done tiger, at least you tried.
Someone involved with the work has gone out if their way to PR it. If you’re not proud of it, if you’re scared of what people might say, don’t PR it.
Anyone that’s ever PR’d anything on this site knows that their open to some trolling. If you have a look a little deeper, you’ll see that when news of someone being hired or moving jobs gets PR’d the comments are almost always positive.
Agencies praise their own work and their competitors rip it apart. and I think everyone is generally pretty careful not to make personal attacks on individuals. I don’t think it’s anything to be sad about.
Right on
An overdue piece on how not to be an asshole in this industry. Double thumbs up.
An overdue piece on how not to be an asshole in this industry. Double thumbs up.
Well said. Show me another creative industry that fires death threats at each other, simply because they personally don’t like the work. If we invested as much effort in celebrating our industry and people, as many do tearing it apart, we would all be better for it. We are our own worst enemies.
So right.
It reflects badly on the whole Aussie advertising industry.
Other markets don’t comment like this and must look at what happens here in a mix of shock and disgust.
Your posts aren’t as funny as you think they are, they just come across as childish, bitter and unprofessional.
If you were an international client would you give your business to a market that acted like that.
So right.
It reflects badly on the whole Aussie advertising industry.
Other markets don’t comment like this and must look at what happens here in a mix of shock and disgust.
Your posts aren’t as funny as you think they are, they just come across as childish, bitter and unprofessional.
If you were an international client would you give your business to a market that acted like that.
I think you’ll find that it’s not always the people that made the ad that PR it. Often it’s the agency or the clients. Personally, even if I do make the occasional good piece of work I don’t want it anywhere near this blog. It’s as toxic as ever.
Look at the difference between the number of comments on here and on facebook. Almost 20k followers on facebook and hardly any comments because it’s linked to their name.
‘If you’re highly intelligent you can’t help but be cynical. Cynicism creates insight. Insight creates brilliant, breakthrough advertising.’
I’m sorry, but that is literally the wankiest thing I have ever heard. You must have written the Bible, since you can obviously see through the false insights in every other piece of creative work since Moses came down the mountain.
Must be windy up there in your ivory tower this week. I hope your agency provides blankets an addition to anonymity.
Hear hear Jamie. Put your money where your mouth is or keep out of it. This isn’t 2004 and we need to start supporting one another, instead of reinforcing this sort of terrible attitude. It helps nobody, least of all ourselves.
Very heartening to see how many of my colleagues have already started bucking the trend. You could learn a thing or two from them, even if they’re not as brilliantly cynical as you.
Isn’t the level of criticism you find on this website indicative of a greater problem of failing to articulate how something missed the mark? For a bunch of people paid to communicate we’re pretty rubbish at it.
The reason why I want to read this blog, apart from seeing the truly great and pr worthy campaigns, is to see the hilarity in some of the lamer posts, and comments that appear beneath them. It actually brightens my day.
As they say, ‘Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has them’.
They also say, ‘If you can’t handle the heat, get outta the kitchen.’
Abuse is usually just that, and says more about the perpetrator than about the object of their vitriol, but critically dismissive commentary, even when it’s harsh, well that’s the price of PRing the work on an industry blog frankly.
In truth, anyone who’s doing high quality work, work that stands out, can afford to take it on the chin from the odd punter who doesn’t have the eye or the portfolio to know any better. When a fool takes you to task, how bad can it hurt?
For work that’s not of high quality, well, we all have to do it from time to time to make a living. It’s not called show art, but show business, and advertising is no different, so why parade the stuff that’s for the pocket and not for the reel around in public, especially among your peers?
Shakespeare knew when a play wasn’t working, because he heard it loud and clear and in no polite terms from the groundlings on opening night. The social media space is the new pit. Live with it, and learn how to use it to your advantage. It’s not going away.
As far as anonymity is concerned, we’ve all been down this road far too many times, but since it appears to need airing once again; the value of the anonymous comment is that it allows the honest voice, that might otherwise fear retribution from higher ups, one’s job at stake, etc. to be heard.
Does this mean that the dishonest, angry, holding-a-grudge, unknowing voices also come flooding through the gates as a consequence? Yes, but that’s the price of the open forum, and like democracy and all it’s warts that come growing out of a secret ballot box, we’ll just have to take the good with the bad.
Thicken the skin, because what a troll has to say in whatever language, mean-spirited or otherwise, is nothing compared to the the kickbacks and dismissals by your own clients. This is not an industry for the easily offended.
Lastly, and your call to arms cuts both ways, Jamie, if you’re really so brilliant at advertising, maybe spend the time and effort it took you to pen your manifesto against anonymous commenters, into making work that your clients are paying you to create, as well as in pressing them to allow you to make work you can both be proud of.
Then you’ll have the confidence to withstand the criticism, and to let the judgements, the good, the bad, and the ugly fall where they may.
Censorship, of any kind, never led to better and more honest work, and not surprisingly, the anonymous forum, for all it’s crassness, usually smells the stinker and calls it as it sees it pretty quickly. That’s why the truly excellent work that makes it on to the blog generally suffers none of the abuse you’re on about, and for the most part receives the praise and awe it deserves.
There’s a lesson there, but it’s not the one you’re trying to teach.
The problem is Australia is known worldwide to be a vicious ad industry, with wankers quick to tear each other down.
So remove comments from campaign brief and replace it with an ‘appreciate’ button and that will solve the problem of coward comments.
Losing comments wont ruin this blog, comments on here are rarely helpful.
Abandoning anonymity is not the same as censorship.
Come on guys. Stop trying to defend a practice that has already disappeared everywhere except YouTube.
Totally agree.
I can be very critical at times about campaigns I dislike, but I think it’s vitally important that criticism is justified and backed up with reasoning.
It’s unfair to just say something is shit, you have to say why or otherwise its just like trolling – only harder to justify.
@BEN 1:42pm makes the most sense out of anyone.
Love love love.
Well done Jamie.
You almost had me. Almost. And then you said this, “the truly excellent work suffers none of the abuse”.
Sadly, that’s a total fantasy. You only have to look at the trolling and been-done-ery on DWTD when it launched on this very blog in 2012: http://www.campaignbrief.com/2012/11/metro-trains-reveals-dumb-ways.html
DWTD is universally considered one of our best pieces of work as a country, ever.
And at least 34 of its 68 comments were negative. (I wonder how many negative ones were made after it won 28 Lions including 5 Grands Prix.)
Here’s another example. First ad embedded into an actual porn film. Groundbreaking. Last count, 50 awards:
http://www.campaignbrief.com/2015/05/the-blue-ball-foundation-and-d.html
Shredded on CB.
Need I go on?
Sorry, but in the real world. everything gets shitcanned.
This is a pit of vipers aged 2.
Spot on. Yes you are.
Haters gonna hate…..move on
@ The World is Watching
What reflects badly on the Australian industry is mediocre advertising. Anyone that’s lived in the UK for a long period knows the two things that hit you when you return are: Our news isn’t really news, it’s weird current affairs program, and our TVC’s are pretty average.
loves your work
Other than the last comment you highlighted in your intro (the one that suggests Jonno, et al should die a horrible death), do you think they really were that harsh as to induce rocking-back-and-forth anxiety? Fuck, I’ve heard and read worse. To suggest that “Jonno with two ns” is akin to spearing the man through the heart is a bit precious. In fact, I’d say it’s no worse than what a child would say as a taunt to another in a school playground.
Now, to suggest that everyone involved in the work should die a horrible death can be construed as overly harsh and disproportionate to the comments section. However, how many times have husbands told wives or sisters told brothers to go fuck themselves without a literal intent? How about when you say, “I hope someone shoots that fucking Pauline Hanson in the face?” It’s called rhetoric and I would say it’s not only cathartic but meaningless – you or I do not mean literally that the person should be murdered. If you or I did, then we’d stump the money to hire an assassin and see our wish to fruition.
I think, Jamie, that there is enough positive advice in the replies for you to learn a lesson or two: don’t PR mediocre work, and drink a cup of cement and harden up a bit.
Wishing you and every M&Cer all the best.
@???????
I Agree. And even more reason to act professional to aspire to be better.
You seem like a smart, educated and evil enough man or woman. I dare you to put your name to your comment. I dare you. Go on. Be proud of your opinion. Stand by it. Why not??
Hear, hear. Toughen the f@ck up ladies. It’s not a mutual appreciation society, it’s your f@cken job. Do we really think miners stand around talking up their colleagues from other mines? Or taxi drivers, waiters, business owners… anyone? No, it’s pretty common to trash your rivals. Let’s not pretend we’re all blood-kin or that anyone’s particularly butt-hurt by what some troll said either. No, we’d rather just sit around complaining about this supposedly industry-destroying phenomenon because we can all do that together and it makes us feel like we belong to a special group of enlightened unicorn warriors against anonymity. Everyone must be identified!! Very Orwellian. Did the criticism of DWTD make any difference in the long run? How’s about thinking it through before putting finger to chiclet next time kids?
The best ads are born out of conflict.
Agency vs Client.
Account service vs Creative.
Art Director vs Writer.
The blog is a mirror to this world.
It’s where all commenters (and those that don’t) live, and why at times on this blog things become more heated than a Hadron-Collider in Hades.
Our lives in agencies (and marketing depts) are filled with presenting and defending ideas. Stoushes and noses figuratively bloodied by arguments over cracking concepts is par for the course. Those annoyed by an anonymous keyboard warrior clearly haven’t worked under enough hard-nosed CDs, Brand Managers or Account Directors, and need to get a thicker skin or more life experience.
Get with the program lads and lassies. Ideas are subjective. Opinions are subjective.
There will always be someone who applauds you while another throws stones as you take a bow. Can you stop them? No. Can you tell them to stop? Yeah you can try. Can you be inspired by the vitriol to create something better and only PR your very best? Yep. In fact you should.
Just don’t be shit.
Thank you. You just summed up why the comment section is fucked. It’s full of people like you. Fucked-up, unemployed assholes with way too much time on their hands. I can’t believe you just tried to rationalise why a death threat is actually ok. You basically just said it’s fine to say anything because you probably don’t mean it.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. You’re a fucking sad, fucked-up individual.
Hey, the fact that we are having a conversation here right now – civilized or not – should be reason enough to keep it anonymous. It’s pretty quiet and boring over at Adnews and Mumbrella. Without it this comment section will look like King Kross on a Saturday night.
Can we have some more cotton wool to wrap these poor souls in?
Media Agency posts the work of the Creative Agency. Creative agency take the hits. Same old tune. They usually get the credits wrong too as they have nothing to do with making the work.
@@@Jamie
OK, you’re right, but only because you dared me, alright?
My name is Banksy.
So much for anonymity. It’s never created a climate in which people could speak truth to power anyway.
Utter tosh mate. You make crap work, unless someone calls you out, you’ll do it again. We’re bad enough, always patting each other the back and giving out awards for absolutely nothing…someone needs to call out the Emperor’s New Clothes when they see them.
@ @copy and paste
I know it’s not always the people who made it that PR it. I’ve made a few things that I’ve prayed the client or media agency didn’t PR. That being said if we want the industry to improve, if we want to create things that we’re proud of, rather than simply to pay the mortgage, we should embrace the negative comments.
Maybe if the clients see them, next time they’ll go with the idea we suggested.
I’ve had multi grand prix winning work torn to shreds on here.
What’s that? Oh sorry, that’s just the sound of me blowing my own trumpet. You’ll get used to it in a second.
Someone once said to me, ‘Why would you put your work up in front of your competition and expect anyone to say a nice comment’. And he’s right.
From the client’s competitors.
From the people wanting the client’s job.
From the people wanting the client’s head.
Some of those people might be agency side.
From the post house that missed out.
From the director that was pipped at the post.
From the producer who was told to shut the fuck up.
From the agency angling for the client to throw them a bone.
From the teams in the incumbent whose idea wasn’t picked.
From the account service who were railroaded by the CD.
From the strategic planners who thought they knew everything, and were railroaded.
From the person trying to get a job.
Your job. At your agency.
The job you probably don’t really like so much.
Face it, you do like it. But that person really wants it.
Why on earth would you put your ad in front of all these people and expect them to play nice?
Juniors are mocked and chastised when starting at an agency…. Mid weights are never given the proper briefs and only get their names on throwaway creative…. Seniors have three good ideas in a year across the nation. That’s pretty much all this industry pumps out. There may be 1000 awards given to your average work tho it’s just economics.
So yeah, go nuts on how important it is in your life. You guys are crazy. It’s a job. A creative job, but a job at the end of the day. Stop putting it on a pedestal.
Boo!!!!
One of the fun things I enjoyed over the years is having a righteous slam-fest with my fellow creatives. The sneers, the superior calling out of a shocker font or a dead copy line. Enjoyable because it is just a show-off time and mostly done without too much seriousness. Smug returns to screens knowing we coulda done it betta. And what goes on in the green juice maker space stays there.
However, calling out work in public with a twisted knife and a string of WTF’s, is just serving yourself. Working on a great piece of constructive criticism might end up making comments space actually worth reading. And make the industry appear professional again. IMO!
This used to be a place I’d come to for a look at what work is being made. Nowadays hardly anyone PRs it here unless it’s really good because people don’t want to put themselves up to the forum of the elderly. I think It’s a shame. Do the shit-flingers still work in the industry and know how hard it is to get half decent work out these days??
We need the Anon comments to keep things honest. Otherwise, all we’re going to do is blow smoke up someone’s arse.
And before we all worry about ‘what the world is thinking’, have a look at the comments on Agency Spy. Makes CB seem like kindergarten.
Long live Anon.
I agree with Jamie and Jonno. Unfortunately this has been happening since blogs were introduced. And unfortunately it is only when it happens to you that it cuts deeply. My question to Jonno and Jamie is – where were you every other day of the week when work has been shot down on this blog? Truth is you didn’t care then and only care now because you’ve copped a serve. You can’t suddenly expect everyone to stop and listen to your rant because you’ve been hurt. Is it fair? No, but it’s time to get on with it. No one in the real world cares.
I don’t know either of you but Jamie, I do admire that you are trying to stick up for a colleague. And Jonno, I haven’t seen any of your work. I’d suggest you start by building a profile for doing good stuff before doing opinion pieces about other high profile work. Clearly you can write so I’m really keen to see what you can do.
Refocus, block out this blog and get on with it.
I don’t think the post is about skirting critique. It’s more saying you don’t have to be an raving asshole while doing it. Let’s be honest a lot of the current “critique” is malicious and unjustified.
Good shit. Well writ.
Anonymity + Audience = Raging Arsehole
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
That was the line stuck on the wall of the best CD I ever worked under.
It’s never been truer than today.
So rant, rave, tear the ideas PR’d here down and pull them quivering into the light to die, but please – if you’re one of the creative people in this industry who is actually PAID to give their opinion on work – leave the authors somewhere to go next, or a direction they could pursue to find a better result next time.
It’s only fair.
It’s just ads, guys. Ads.
You’ve got the work you’re proud of; work that kind of almost worked; and the stuff you do to help keep your agency and yourself in business. But it’s all still just ads.
If you’re chasing awards, go chase em. But don’t expect everyone else to chase them too. If they don’t care as much as you, who cares? It’s probably because they know that at the end of the day, ads.
If you want to show your inability to understand that approaches to making advertising can be different, and that this is actually fine, go ahead and impose your own personal values to every single piece of work on the blog. You must be fun to be around.
That’s the thing. I don’t see the harm of putting your name to your opinion if it’s well structured, polite criticism. That is (or should be) what we do all the time within our agencies – and not vile arguments as someone implied. Instead of hampering your employment prospects, this should improve them. It shows you’d push for better work if you were hired. Call me naïve, but if this ain’t the case, then it’s more of a HR mentality problem.
I also see two conflicting bits of criticism here: 1) “you do work for yourselves and not the client’s business problem” and 2) “why PR the work if you can’t cop the flak”. Well, I would imagine you PR the work so the client would get as much attention as possible like you promised. Not just to show off to your peers.
And finally, there’s nothing “factual” about calling something a rip-off just because there a certain element in common with something else. It’s not that black-and-white and we all know it.
How about a little note at the top showing who posted the work. I would money down that is almost never posted by the creatives or with their consent.
Anonymity = Democracy of ideas
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/08/19/the-war-against-online-trolls/anonymity-online-serves-us-all
The tradeoff we make for advertising (mostly) selling us things we didn’t want or need is the beauty, creativity, and emotion that advertising can bring. If I’m smiling or crying, you’ve done your job.
Good advertising meets that bar, and if it’s on here there’s an expectation that it has. It’s right when people call out what’s paraded as exceptional as being average or uninspired. I’ll give praise when it’s good though, all the time.
Posting under a pseudonym is all well and good if you want to just rip the work apart, add no value and leave a witty remark. But if you actually think your comment is going to influence the agency the next time they come to create another ad, when they have no idea who you are, you’re probably wrong.
But… if you actually put your name to it and you’re someone who holds some sway in the industry, then maybe people will sit up and listen; “Oh sh*t… so-and-so just left some feedback on that campaign. They have a good point. We over looked that”!
Maybe that’s not the point of this blog though. Work gets shared, they encourage you to use a pseudonym, people start trolling, voyeuristic traffic rolls in. Moderating the death threats wouldn’t go a-miss though guys.
Maybe you should look at the video that was called a rip-off and the video it clearly rip’d-off
Is it any coincidence that the people getting upset about others being ‘mean’ to them are from ‘every child wins a prize’ Generation Y?
@@Leandro: if you specifically mean Mayhem vs Confidence, I have looked, of course. Suited up men with abstract concepts for names – that’s as far as the link goes.
For an industry supposedly dominated by men, we really are a bunch of whiny little bitches. I suggest we all grow up and go back to doing what we do so well, nothing.
Guess what, some people need to protect their reputation because advertising is a job they do for money, because without money society throws you in a ditch. If a creative can’t handle people telling them what they really think they should just show their work to their mom.
Easiest way to protect your reputation: keep quiet. But if you really need to get it out of your chest, there are ways of commenting that won’t burn you.
You anons keep missing the point. It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. Knock the work with some class and you can own it.
I mean, who are the “little bitches”, really – the people calling out unnecessary, borderline immature animosity within a small market, or those who won’t own up to their honest opinions?
The point is, negativity is poisoning the industry. It isn’t a new thing. It just moves more quickly now. A comment here, a dig there. It’s self-perpetuating and the sum of all it is people heading for the door.